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Linux is a kernel.


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I get pretty tired of seeing all this "Linux" propaganda, where the people obviously are talking about the GNU operating system with the Linux kernel, but are for some reason seeing Linux as the whole operating system. I would never use Linux as my main operating system, since Linux is a kernel :D I do however use the GNU OS extensively, with the Linux kernel. Please step up and stop reffering to Linux as something it is not!

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Created:May 9 2008
Changed:May 9 2008
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 BSD

 
 by tw1ggz on: May 10 2008
 
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Thats why real men run BSD! BSD users on average are ten years older than linux users, BSD developers are certainly older and more experienced than any linux developer which makes for a much better designed OS (which any BSD _is_ a true OS) , which by the way, linux wasnt designed..it was grown like a fungus...now we have all of these linux kids running around thinking insane things like "there wouldnt be a BSD if it werent for linux" or "i want to run one of those BSD linux distros", etc....Now I must ask a question....wht the hell does this group have to do with gnome-look? I agree totally with the statement that linux is a kernel...not an operating system...Ill give you that much.


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 Re: BSD

 
 by Tweenk on: May 11 2008
 
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OMG LOL! Get off your high horse. BSDs are different, not better. Actually, because of the immense amount of corporate contribution that Linux is getting (over 70% of Linux developers are paid to do their job - source: Linux Journal), it beats BSD in many areas, notably filesystems and desktop hardware support. On the other hand, BSD is more stable, which can be good for servers.

The claim about BSD users being 10 years older makes you look infantile. Moreover, a programmer's age is not a good measure of his excellence, because things are changing really fast in IT. Your opinion that BSD is "better designed" is unsubstantiated. Do you have any technical insight into OS design? How is BSD a more "real" OS than Linux? Do you mean realtime capability? If so, Linux is definitely better here if you enable full kernel preemption.

OK, another pointless rant about some fanboy, great way to waste time...


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 Re: Re: BSD

 
 by Tweenk on: May 11 2008
 
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BTW, Real Men(tm) don't use computers, they are too busy doing... erm, other more interesting things.


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 Re: Re: BSD

 
 by tw1ggz on: May 11 2008
 
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Yea, linux developers are often more busy developing linux because they have nothing else to do while the majority of BSD developers have real jobs. My FreeBSD machine can do EVERYTHING your linux box can and more efficiently...I can run linux binaries if need be...can linux run bsd binaries? of course linux compatibility wouldnt be nessecary in BSD if todays imature coders werent so intent on making everything so linuxy its retarded. Ill stay on my high horse thank you very much.


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 Re: Re: BSD

 
 by tw1ggz on: May 11 2008
 
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The claim about BSD developers and users being older isnt just a claim, its a fact, if i felt like googling up the site where I found this, Id show you, why dont you go google it.


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 Re: Re: Re: BSD

 
 by Tweenk on: May 18 2008
 
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Regardless of whether this claim is a fact or not, you failed to estabilish its relevance.


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 Re: Re: BSD

 
 by tw1ggz on: May 11 2008
 
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Also, want to talk filesystems? ext3 is nothing but ext2 with a feature that makes it horribly inconsistent. reiserfs was created by someone that was just convicted of killing his wife......lol...i can go on all day.


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 Re: Re: Re: BSD

 
 by Tweenk on: May 18 2008
 
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"The OS I'm a fanboy of doesn't have good filesystems, so I'll start moaning that all other FSes are crap". Yeah, great way to make an argument.
How does journaling make a file system inconsistent? That is some interesting insight. And ReiserFS will try to kill your wife too, yes. How are Hans Reiser's antics relevant to the choice of a file system? I can't think of any rational reason. I'm running ReiserFS and I don't feel the need to kill anybody.
BTW, you forgot to give us your informed opinion on NTFS, XFS, Btrfs, JFS, ...


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 Re: Re: BSD

 
 by tw1ggz on: May 11 2008
 
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AND: BSD is more of a real OS because linux is not an OS, its a kernel with GNU apps wrapped around it. BSD maintains its own tools IE: BSD doesnt use GNU ls or GNU mv, they maintain their own. Name one distribution of linux that maintains their OWN applications...there are none....they are all maintained elsewhere by someone in the GNU organization. Not to mention BSD has a true base install, no linux distro does simply because they dont even maintain the apps they wrap around the linux kernel..lol...FreeBSD comes with a simple base install....and all user added applictions reside in /usr/local...this is a much more secure practice than linux just throwing everything in /usr/bin etc....you need to go do some homework boy. You dont know what youre talking about.


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 Re: Re: Re: BSD

 
 by Tweenk on: May 18 2008
 
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Debian has a true base install. You install all packages with priority "required" and "important". That doesn't give you much functionality, but that's what a base install should be. I agree that technically Linux is not an OS, but Linux-based OSes (Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora...) are "real OSes".
Additionally, you don't understand filesystem hierarchy at all. /usr hierarchy is used for files installed by the package manager, while /usr/local is for things the user install himself (usually compiling from sources). This is a much better idea than to put both user-built programs and official builds in one directory and hope that there are no conflicts. Yeah, a system with conflicting packages is more secure because it doesn't work at all, but I think that wasn't your point.


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 Re: Re: Re: BSD

 
 by Tweenk on: May 18 2008
 
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BTW, how is it of any benefit for anyone to have their very own version of grep, sed, ls, mkdir etc. instead of using a GNU version that is tested and reliable? BSD has to have its own versions because they use a different licensing model, but I'm pretty sure the BSDs do share these tools between themselves. More use of a single program = less bugs.


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 Re: Re: BSD

 
 by tw1ggz on: May 11 2008
 
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Again yes, you are probably right about 70% of linux developers get paid...by redhat and other distributions that expect money for their distributions...i may be wrong...but doesnt most kernel dev. get done by redhat? While BSD devs are out running isps and their own businesses and still putting out a more secure and stable OS....(most linux users dont know or just wish linux was a true OS)


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 Re: Re: Re: BSD

 
 by Chrispy on: May 11 2008
 
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And? What has the default setup to do with the possibilties? You can make a BSD insecurer than Windows and a GNU/Linux securer than a BSD.

You just want to profile yourself with your cluelessness. That's it.


I'm bigger and boulder and rougher and tougher in other words sucker there is no other
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 Re: Re: Re: Re: BSD

 
 by tw1ggz on: May 11 2008
 
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Yes, I can also go buy a cake from the store but Id much rather bake my own since I can do it better. You obviously know nothing about BSD ....and your general statements about "you can make blahblahblah more secure and then you can make a blahblahlah just as secure" is a bunch of bull. Id rather somethign that comes more secure out of the box than have to afroengineer on it for half an hour like any linux distro Ive ever used.


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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: BSD

 
 by Tweenk on: May 18 2008
 
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OK, if you say that Linux systems are unsecure by default, try to break into a default Ubuntu install. You may have a hard time:
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Mac-OS-X-Hacked-Vista-SP1-Hacked-Ubuntu-Linux-Survives-Unscathed-82079.shtml


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 Re: Re: Re: BSD

 
 by Tweenk on: May 18 2008
 
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Why should we care who pays people to develop Linux if we still get the latest version for free, and the GPL licensing guarantees that forever? BSD people don't have this assurance: if someone pays you to develop BSD, most often the BSD community won't see any of that code, because the payer will keep it proprietary.


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 Re: BSD

 
 by pawels133 on: May 21 2008
 
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>Thats why real men run BSD! BSD users on average are ten years older than linux users, BSD developers are certainly older and more experienced than any linux developer which makes for a much better designed OS (which any BSD _is_ a true OS) , which by the way, linux wasnt designed..it was grown like a fungus...now we have all of these linux kids running around thinking insane things like "there wouldnt be a BSD if it werent for linux" or "i want to run one of those BSD linux distros", etc....Now I must ask a question....wht the hell does this group have to do with gnome-look? I agree totally with the statement that linux is a kernel...not an operating system...Ill give you that much.

Total bulsh*t. You're reading too much *bsd people propaganda. Linux is created by companies like: IBM, Intel, Novel, Redhat and many more. Are you jealous, because *bsd can't compete with Linux? Which system runs the most overloaded servers? Linux. For example freebsd has over 600 unfixed bugs and is much slower than Linux in DNS performance (Linux kernel 2.6.20 is faster than super, cool freebsd7, LOL), MySQL etc. Freebsd devs want to port nouveau Linux driver for nvidia cards, but wait a minute. Freebsd doesn't have TTM and DRM so nouveau driver won't work.

>On the other hand, BSD is more stable, which can be good for servers.

Any proofs? There are Linux systems which runs over ten years without restart and as I mentioned already Linux servers are much faster.


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 WHY

 
 by tw1ggz on: May 11 2008
 
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again...wht the hell does the linux kernel have to do with gnome-look.org? why is this group even here? lol. Does opendesktop.org distribute the linux kernel on these sites and i dont even know about it? This group is useless...you should try linuxgangster.org and start a forum there...its more suitable.


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 Re: WHY

 
 by Chrispy on: May 11 2008
 
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Man because everyones saying Linux instead of GNU/Linux, because Linux is just the Kernel. Got it? It would be the same than someone would say Berkeley or BSE instead of BSD.


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 Re: Re: WHY

 
 by tw1ggz on: May 11 2008
 
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I know that. You completely didnt answer my question. Does opendesktop.org distribute or develop the linux kernel? NO THEY DONT. SO let me ask again....WHY IS THIS GROUP ON GNOME-LOOK.ORG ? opendesktop.org is a place for themes, wallpapers, etc.....ive never seen the damn linux kernel up for download here....dumb linux users....


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 Re: Re: Re: WHY

 
 by Tweenk on: May 18 2008
 
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Last time I checked, groups not related to desktop customization were not banned here. This is not the best place to discuss GNU/Linux name war, but if people want to, why not? If you don't want to talk about this subject, you don't have to. Do you read and comment in every group on this site? I guess no. So if you don't want to take part in this discussion, don't post.


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 answer the question

 
 by tw1ggz on: May 11 2008
 
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Groups like this is why I stick to FreeBSD and OpenBSD on my servers and desktops...The moment any of the *-look.org sites start distributing or developing the linux kernel...then put a group about it on here....this group is way out of place. This group is making linux users look quite dumb...I bet half of you run ubuntu of some flavor....hindubuntu, jewbuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu, afrobuntu, ubuntu christian edition...wtf...have i missed one? Still..this group doesnt belong here....WHY IS IT HERE?


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 Re: answer the question

 
 by Tweenk on: May 18 2008
 
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Hunger in Africa is the reason I eat tomatoes instead of cabbage.


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 Why this is here

 
 by deniseweird on: May 11 2008
 
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I saw that there were several groups for different distributions here (Now there's an active Xubuntu group), so I didn't see the wrong in it. About FreeBSD: It owns, I know. But there is only one sensible desktop distro I know of (DesktopBSD) but I ruined it pretty quickly with the package manager, and don't even mention PC-BSD to me, I will never like .pbi. But whatever you choose, saying Linux about a whole system is still wrong.


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 Re: Why this is here

 
 by marcaemus on: May 11 2008
 
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A rose by any other name. A rose is a rose is a rose, by any other name is a rose.

Lets just move on. This isn't the place to do Stallman vs Torvalds. There are smarter places than this.


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 Re: Why this is here

 
 by tw1ggz on: May 12 2008
 
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Yeah, the package manager in dbsd does need work. But whats so hard about "pkg_add -r gnome2" or "portinstall gnome2" (assuming you can read and figure out how to install portupgrade to use portinstall).


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 Re: Re: Why this is

 
 by tw1ggz on: May 12 2008
 
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This guys problem is: he didnt take enough time to read about how to do what he wanted.....he obviously knows all the ubuntu commands that he had to learn somewhere such as sudo apt-get update , sudo apt-get install blah , sudo apt-get wtfever. You quickly screwed up your install because you didnt care enough to read about how to do things correctly since you already knew how to use ubuntu and synaptic (my explaination goes for the gui package manager in dbsd also, investigate it a little bit and figure it out properly just like you did synaptic and you wouldnt have screwed it up)


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 Re: Why this is here

 
 by tw1ggz on: May 13 2008
 
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I am not wrong when I say "linux isnt a whole operating system" why dont you email linus himself and see what he tells you! Its a kernel, with gnu applications wrapped around it. If linux was an operating system why would there be a need for over 300 active distributions of it being developed? Thats alot of linux operating systems...lol... /sarcasm


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 Re: Re: Why this is here

 
 by Tweenk on: May 18 2008
 
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Linux is not a kernel with GNU apps wrapped around it. It is a kernel. With no apps, no userspace programs, nothing. If you want to be a purist, then do it right at least.


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 package manager

 
 by deniseweird on: May 13 2008
 
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For your information, I am not a guy. Anyway. I opened up the package manager GUI wich is standard in DesktopBSD (don't remember the name), I enabled some option "Use packages first, compile source if it is newer or only alternative" or something like that. Then I tried upgrading all programs that had updates. Somewhere when it was going to compile xorg it failed with a compile error I couldn't solve (Wasn't this supposed to be automatic?). Being something as important as xorg, I got some real problems after that. (I could probably solve it somehow, but the package manager Did have problems according to me). Now this was a long time ago, but I think this is how it went.


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 Re: package manager

 
 by tw1ggz on: May 13 2008
 
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again, try reading. The xorg upgrade in freebsd from 6.9 to 7.x was a big deal....since they moved where it installed to.../usr/ports/UPDATING exists for a reason....dont complain because you didnt read it or obviously didnt bother to ask anyone.


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 Re: Re: package manager

 
 by Tweenk on: May 18 2008
 
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User: Your program sucks hard!
Dev: But it's documented!


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 updating

 
 by deniseweird on: May 14 2008
 
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About Linux: Like the group name says: Linux is a kernel. I heard Linus Torvalds would argue that it is an OS though for some reason. But I am not sure on that.

Actually I don't want to be forced to read a manual just for an upgrade done in a graphical package manager. I expect it to solve this itself. (And wasn't this supposed to be automatic compiling?) And I believe it was an upgrade from xorg 7.2 to 7.3. By saying this it doesn't mean I hate FreeBSD, or anything like that, pointing out problems could also be good for improving it, wich is what I want since I like the project. Atleast for a user who expects uncomplicated package management, this is a problem.


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 Re: updating

 
 by tw1ggz on: May 14 2008
 
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sounds like you need to go back to windows then.


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 Re: Re: updating

 
 by Tweenk on: May 18 2008
 
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User: That program has serious bugs!
BSDFan: If you don't like its bugs, use another program! Anyway, they are documented, so RTFM.


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